Selling Loot in Empire
Part of a series on
Investments and Marketing
You go ratting, you get lots of named loot. Some people may not realize how much some of it is worth and how little some other of it is worth.
First: NEVER QUICKSELL LOOT!! (never quicksell minerals either, except to GoonSwarm. you're getting ripped off. except by GoonSwarm) (conflict of interest disclosure: this poster likely to lie to help GoonSwarm) Always ALWAYS place sell orders. You get your cash more slowly, but you make a LOT more.
Sell orders are placed by right clicking and going to 'sell' then clicking "advanced" and entering the price. Always set the duration to 3 months. You can modify the price after placing, or cancel the order entirely. First I right-click and go "view market details" to check the price table. I think the chart page is default, and it's more pretty than it is useful, you want the "market data" tab and you're looking at the "sellers" page for the relevant information.
My general strategy is always to place really competitive bids, 10k under the lowest bid. But I manage to make more because I know what information to ignore. Ignore orders in other systems, ignore fire-sale orders. Ignore the first 3-5 orders for popular bulk-buy expanders and guns. Know when to charge a premium. But generally, I lowball everything in the hopes of getting my ISK quickly.
The first step is to check my Free Frigates & Modules Guide for a list of useless shit modules. Become familiar with this, learn how to keep your hangar clear of clutter.
The second step is to become familiar with the Named Items Chart and learn which loot is worthless.
Commonly overvalued loot:
- Named shit loot.
- First and second-tier named modules that are useful but common—stuff like large armor reps, large cap batteries, large cap boosters. The first and second tier stuff is worth equal to or less than T1 and should be reprocessed.
- Anything but 'Arup' and 'Solace' large and medium remote reps should be reprocessed.
- Anything but crystalline and tungsten 800s, 400s, 200mm plates. All named 1600s are worth something. All 100s and 50s are worth nothing.
After that it depends on what you consider worth hauling down. Some people reprocess everything but best-named battleship loot because they are lazy. Named guns, no matter how cheap on the market, will sell pretty fast because people buy whole racks at a time. Low-named EW, tracking and damage mods won't sell at all.
Named blasters drop like nuts and behave very strangely and I can't really figure them out. Below is a reference table. Notice how totally random these are, that is because blasters are fucked up.
- Anode Mega Ion - 1,000k
- Anode Mega Electron - 150k
- Anode Mega Neutron - 5,000k
- Anode Medium Ion - 2,000k
- Anode Medium Electron - 1,500k
- Anode Medium Neutron - 500k
- Anode Light Ion - 200k
- Anode Light Electron - 100k
- Anode Light Neutron - 800k
- Modal Mega Ion - 5,000k
- Modal Mega Electron - 2,000k
- Modal Mega Neutron - 7,500k
- Modal Medium Ion - 5,000k
- Modal Medium Electron - 2,000k
- Modal Medium Neutron - 2,500k
- Modal Light Ion - 900k
- Modal Light Electron - 2,000k
- Modal Light Neutron - 2,500k
Anything "Anode" worth around or more than a million isk is likely to be worth selling as "Limited" and "Regulated" versions also. Otherwise you're dropping to 100k a gun.
Above all, take your time to study the price of things before placing your sell orders. I find this enjoyable because I can jew myself that extra 100k for each item.
Sell Order Advice
First of all, the best place to sell loot is Oursulaert because although the prices are often much lower there for a lot of things, that's a deceiving fact. Prices are lower in Oursulaert for things that are unpopular and/or in high supply—these things tend to be higher priced elsewhere out of ignorance not because people buy many of them. The exception is stuff that drops often in Oursulaert but is bought often in other hubs like Jita or Rens. But hubs are the best if you know how to sell things, because expensive things are MUCH more expensive in hubs. Selling a top-named gun for 6mil instead of 4mil will make you more than selling something shitty that's listed for 400k in Scolluzer whereas there's a dozen of them on the market in ours for 150k. The reason you can do this is because the two popular stations, Fed Navy III and VII-4, are often sold out of the really popular stuff and people will often pay a lot more to avoid undocking. The further away the next thing is, the more you can jew out of them. Recognize also that for things like guns and cargo expanders, and popular stuff like armor hardeners, you can often ignore the first 4 to 6 orders. There's often a jump between those and the "real" orders at better prices, so compete with those.
Here are some examples to show how to ignore spurious information. Notice these are all drawn from very good best-named items. Low-demand or High-supply (and prices are dropping because supply increased so much after RMR) items don't behave in exploitable ways so I always come in at the lowest in-system price.
You need to learn to filter out what's relevant, but don't get greedy. I like to think like a buyer. Anyone who buys 12 million ISK expanders is putting them on a Mammoth or Iteron Mark V and is thus buying 4 or 5 at once. They are not going to fly 10 jumps to save 100k ISK when they're spending 55 million. They may not even want to switch stations to save 100k ISK on 12 million. But don't get greedy and place yours for above 11,800 because this is but one picture of an ever-changing market landscape. The 4 expanders you see there at competitive prices "churn" very quickly, whereas the others have probably been there forever. You want to price your stuff at the high end on items that move quickly. I'd put my expander up at 11,700,000.
I'd go in at 790. Those random-number orders are placed at regional average, and sucker buy orders are included in that index. Any regional-average sell order in Oursulaert itself is long gone. 11 at the station is probably one of those sucker buyers offloading his stock (they place region-wide orders to catch mission runners, and spend all their time flying to obscure systems to collect 1 of this or 2 of that).
This looks suspiciously to me like people buy a LOT of 250mm protos in Oursulaert. And i bet they do, they're a sweet gun. So an amateur would come in at 5,000 cause that's a nice round number. But not I. No. I'm going to place my order at 5,400. Am I crazy? No. I'll get it because someone's going to come in and snap up the two 5,120s and will need a 3rd gun (and probably a 4th or 5th) and won't mind paying 300k more to save time.
What if there are no sell orders up in Oursulaert, everything being 1 or more jumps away? You've hit a goldmine-- the hub is temporarily out of stock and you can probably get away with charging a premium. Again, think what you as a buyer would pay to not have to fly around.
Here's an illustration of that:
Market history for these is about 1,000,000 ISK. But even if 4 more ions come onto the market before a buyer comes along, they'll price to compete with me and i'll still get bought. The only risk is that the market goes back to equilibrium before a buyer comes. So I'm going in at 2,000,000.
What if there are no sell orders up at all?! This applies mostly to best-named stuff, rare stuff, and implants. I check the price history and usually over-shoot it. There are nearly always buy orders for these type of items, and those are for total suckers. However, if you're ever in the market for implants, rare stuff, or best-named stuff - try putting in a buy order that's more fair and you'll be surprised how quickly it fills. Last time i was in ours there were no orders up for cruiser-size modal ion so even though the price graph shows a range between 2 and 4 mil i sold mine within a day at 6.5mil.
So far these have all been special cases for bonanza loot. If you sell all your named loot, it tends to add up, so i take down a lot of stuff. Items that sell for 100k to 400k usually move pretty slowly, and I'll generally lowball the market orders because I'd rather not have those sitting up for sale, and what's 10k below the lowest order anyways? I still ignore out-of-system orders, but for cheap stuff that aren't guns that's not really an issue because other people have come along and lowballed those orders and set up a new equilibrium (prices are sticky upwards but go down easily for loot unless the devs buff something or change loot tables/mission drops).
For selling a lot of loot, you'll need a lot of concurrent orders. It is worth training Trade and Retail to IV. Retail needs only Trade II, and with Trade III and Retail II (about 12 hours) you can manage 29 orders. Broker Relations naturally lowers the broker charge of setting up any order, and Accounting lowers the sales tax percentage. They need Trade II and IV respectively, but you're unlikely to feel the difference except for when selling very high value items.
An oft-overlooked skill is Daytrading, which can be trained very quickly. At level IV this skill allows you to modify buy and sell orders at a maximum of 20 jumps away from their location (if you are within the same region). This is useful because, when you are undercut by someone else, you don't actually have to travel all the way to the station where your goods are being sold in order to lower your prices. If you sell somewhere laggy and wardec-dangerous like Jita, for example, you can put all your goods on the market at a quiet time and modify your prices as needed even during peak weekend times.
Visibility and Procurement are retarded skills (the descriptions are wrong) and mostly useless except for niche activities. So trade is low-skill intensive unless you want to be a superjew.
Submitted to the forums by Aliksr
--Korell Lumina 07:37, 9 February 2006 (CST)