Dissecting Goon Culture

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After RA massively raped LV's dread fleet a particularly not-stupid Finfleet member named Cflux wrote up what was practically an essay on Goon culture. While he was, for the most part, correct he did have a few incorrect assumptions and his ideas on how to defeat us were completely off base. Below is the post edited to make more sense in the English language. Anything with {curvy brackets surrounding it} means i have no clue what exactly he was going for, so I used the actual words. I also fixed some italics/bolds issues.

Subject: Goonfleet, Mentality, Strategy and Something Awful

I'm trying my best to write something but English is not my first language and I may not make complete sense. But I'll try my best so please bear with me.

I want to correct a serious misunderstanding we have about Goonfleet. We are fueling their war machine, one which works completely opposite of the way things in Eve have been done in the past. Goonfleet lives for controversy, misery, flaming e-honor and making good manners into one of their own personal jokes. Something Awful is the best site in the world for controversial humor and that is where they recruit 99% of their pilots, during newbie drives they hold. What is important to understand is that they are kind of like {ultimate capitalistic society} that likes to hang out with each other, forcing those who don't fit into their model of humor to go away. That includes making fun of everything possible without having any boundaries.

A few examples to give you the idea. Last night we killed "their" carrier. We laughed at its fit in local for them to hear. Any normal corp would be ashamed because of that fit as it was so horrible it would have lowered their morale. But in Goonfleet's case our smack talk and that carrier's bad fitting was instantly turned into a benefit. They smack talked their own carrier pilot two times as hard as we could ever have done. In their eyes, he was an idiot who never deserved to play in Goonfleet. A guy who can't read FAQs, a guy who can't fit a fucking carrier, a guy who should be playing in LV so people would aid him and give him (what they would consider) support. He'd not be a GF member, the kind who should read FAQs, understand game mechanics and play well if he intends to fly such ships. Our smack talk didn't hurt them, but it gave us the idea that all GF carriers are fitted that way, but infact he was most likely someone who was not too liked in GF in the first place. Poor SOB who tried to act as a useful entity of the hive but failed. No one bothered to even check if his fittings were combat ready and now he's the laughing stock of their entire alliance. Of course shooting the carrier gave us an advantage. They lost resources, they lost isk, and killing a ship (especially a cap ship) provides us with benefits. But we can instantly lose that benefit if we try to make fun of it, since they out of all people can make it look good for their alliance and not like a bad thing. Because we let them, because we interact with them. Do not interact with them, do not comment in local, just shoot. I will explain why, just keep on reading.

The reason why GF loves t1 frigs and cruisers is not because they can't or don't have the ISK to play anything better. It is the fact that if you play with better gear, you are expected to know how to use it, to the point of perfection. These guys drive from being good, abusing others and making fun of everything, including their own players, the ones who don't fit into the "good players" category. That forces their members to learn the game fast and well. No one in GF wants to be the idiot who gets laughed at by his friends.

The reason why they call their members spacejews, Hitlers, why Remedial likes ham so much, because he's a fat fuck, and naming their stations after World War II concentration camps is due to the fact that they absolutely love to hurt feelings. To them you are playing an internet spaceship game and taking it too seriously by getting all offended about nothing. This is Goonfleet's biggest fault, they are hypocritical even towards each other. At the same time they're laughing at us holding such matters as fair play and political correctness important in an internet spaceship game, they themselves spend countless hours playing the same internet spaceship game.

See the double standards there? They laugh at people playing with "honor and integrity". At the same time they're {in the background demanding} exactly the same from their own members, ones who play countless hours of the same game as those who do hold "honor and integrity".

Goonfleet is {ultra capitalistic} in its gameplay. They don't subsidize their own members, they even demand isk from their own corp mates for scouting from system to system. They say it's a good way for newbs to make isk. They demand a lot and if you fail in gameplay they make you a living example of a sucker. Without the remorse that we are used to giving to players who make mistakes. Making mistakes is allowed for those who fly shit such as basic t1 fitted cruisers and frigates as those don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. What is important for Goonfleet is that those (the "mass" of Goonfleet) log in for every major fight they have, for fun. That gives them the number advantage but the point is that their "mass" does not log in if there is nothing to make fun of. Their community revolves around the fact that they can laugh at other people and if there aren't other people to laugh at, they will joke about each other or flame their own members in their various chat channels. Shit absolutely has to be fun in GF all the time.

That leads us to an important point to understand. When you petition them for spamming stupid shit in local, when you talk with them in local you are interacting with them, your are providing their "mass" of players something to laugh at, something that makes their community. It is something they think is fun and it is making you mad and angry over an internet game, they think they are succeeding in their act of...


Last night of "omgz, goons lag us" created {the ultimate momentum} inside Goonfleet's "mass" to log in. Since they think "lol at those LV faggots, they take this so seriously. I will be here tomorrow just to make them feel bad again lolol btw you are a fat space jew lol"

You don't believe me? Straight from the Space General Bullshit, a conversation between Remedial and the GM you called in last night.

Remedial's Conversation with GM Sunshine

GM Sunshine > Good evening
Remedial > Hi there, what's up
GM Sunshine > We have been recieving several petitions regarding your members spamming local during combat
GM Sunshine > and we would like you to stop this this instant
Remedial > Totally false. We only fofofo one line each, and only after we win a battle
GM Sunshine > regardless
Remedial > If you check the chatlogs compared to LV killmails, you'll see that I am telling the truth
GM Sunshine > stop this
Remedial > I also don't control every single goon in GoonSwarm. I typed fofofo and then everybody else did
GM Sunshine > you are there figure head and leader, if you are unable to get them to do stop this, then who is?
Remedial > Well, you could always go to the offenders and talk to them personally rather than holding me 
accountable every time a goonswarm member gets petitioned
Remedial > I mean, I just love having a GM tell me to stop 2500 different players from performing an action
Remedial > But it's pretty much beyond my control. I don't even have a mic on TS right now
Remedial > Really you should probably just delete local entirely, as that's clearly why LV is losing the war in Detorid
GM Sunshine > local chat and LV's ability is not up for discussion here, your members behaviour is
GM Sunshine > let's stick to that
Remedial > Ok: you are a GM, I'm some fat guy on the internet in charge of a SPACE GUILD. I think you should go to 
people who break rules and bust their balls, not mine. I don't get to enforce rules because you know, fat guy on the internet.
Remedial > So when somebody renames a station to DEAD FAGGOTS or somebody screams "SMOSKE SUCKS" in #BobChat or 
somebody spams local with Fofofo, I really shouldn't be the person you convo.
GM Sunshine > you may not run the internet, but for all intents and purposes, you run Goonswarm
Remedial > Ok, I'll post a thread telling people not to spam fofofo on Eve-O.
GM Sunshine > how you get your members to stop this is not my concern, just do it
Remedial > Ok, so if "my guys" keep doing it, does that mean you're going to ban my account for 
non-compliance with an impossible order?
Remedial > Or will you just start gagging offenders in local so they can't spam
Remedial > PS voting option #2
GM Sunshine > I will not warn you for this in any way or form
GM Sunshine > regardless if you do comply this time or not
Remedial > Living up to your name every day, sweetcheeks!
GM Sunshine > but your actions will affect future decisions
Remedial > I'd like to elevate this complaint please
Remedial > Can I talk to your manager?
Remedial > Is he wearing a nametag?
Remedial > Or like a special hat or something
GM Sunshine > you can file a petition
Remedial > Should I file it under stuck?
GM Sunshine > you can do that
Remedial > I love you GM Sunshine, you're my favorite GM in this chatroom
GM Sunshine > considering I'm the only GM in here, I'll take that with a pinch of salt
Remedial > /emote takes off his shirt.
Remedial > 16/m/FL
Remedial > u??
GM Sunshine > Immortal, male, Game masters
Remedial > /emote puts on his robe and wizard hatt.
Remedial > /emote massages ur master.

Back to the post

You just gave them another reason to be proud of their alliance leader. He's calling a GM a faggot and he's doing it within the boundries of EVE rules. He's not getting banned, he's playing right on the spot here.

Remedial then proceeds to post this on their forums making him look like a hero in their eyes. The funniest guy on the fucking internet! This makes LV look like whiny fucks who deserve all the grief and being fucked with. You are making sure that their "mass" will log on the next day because we gave them exactly what they need: Fun in local, fun in game, and a society where they can laugh at others. You managed to play into their hands exactly like they wanted you to. Why? Because you did not understand who you were fighting against.

For them the laughter of anything is the best shit they can get ingame. YOu showing them stuff like "gf" in local, you're trying to respect them, you're trying to hate them, or if you post something in EVE-O or in local it makes them think they are doing the right thing. YOu start to care what they think of you. Do not fall into this trap.

(Editor's note: That entire paragraph is confusing and muddling although the basic idea is clear. I couldn't clear up the wording so I left it kinda as is)

There is nothing you can say in local or on Eve-O that they can not make fun of. If their members fail in something, dies at a gatecamp, has a noob fit, or says something stupid they will just make fun of that members. Each time you call them fags or blobbers or newbs, they will just laugh and think "{gos} that guy is so fucking arrogant and I made him sad and I made him think he's useless by being here. Yes, that's exactly what I want I'm going to log in tommorow too just to fag these guys up!"

Original thread so you can see it in its Deunglish glory: http://goonfleet.com/showthread.php?t=36472